Posted by JohnX2 on March 27, 2002, at 4:57:58
In reply to Do Lamictal Provigil counteract each other?, posted by 3 Beer Effect on March 27, 2002, at 4:19:55
Did you get a dopamine kick from provigil?
That medicine worked for 2 hrs for me before pooping out! I've looked at this stupid poopout thing inside out. Adderall would poopout in 3 days like clockwork, except when co-administered with Klonopin, a GabaA agonist. Then it was smooth sailing at 40 mg/day (until Klonopin shit on me). I was actually going to ask you if there was a correlation between the Klopopin tolerance and provigil poop out. I've read papers describing how GabaA (specifically Klonopin) and also nmda antagonist alleviate tolerance to amphetamines. Certainly Klonopin worked for me for amphetamine tolerance. I was quite shocked at the effect. Unfortunately when I built up tolerance to klonopin, the amphetamine went KABAM!
But the lamictal observation is interesting. Some people have reported that lamictal helps with Adderall tolerance (which I thought could be through nmda receptor modulation). However, I have found that if I bump Lamictal above 150 mg that weird shit happens that is not really consistent with a simplified NMDA antagonist effect. I think the medicine starts to reuptake monoamines or something, because it starts to give me tension headaches like Zoloft. The Lamictal only works for me in a narrow window of 150-225 mg.
Hmm, need to think about this provigil some more.
Seems as though not protecting those dopamine receptors with Gaba neurons (which are the Gaba A type like Klonopin stimulate) may lead to some sort of (de)sensitization. Just a quick swag.
Also seems a bit risky in my view to deprotect neurons from Gaba, just my opinion now that I look at the medicine.
I also get remarked Wellbutrin poop out, like a response in a few minutes/hours, and then poop out. Go figure. I even tried taking Wellbutrin with dxm (an nmda antagonist) to see if it would prevent tinnitus and poopout and it worked. (except I stopped the experiment because dxm is toxic). A few other posters notably AndrewB used a medication called memantine which just capped hyperglutamate transmission and this purpotedly prevents stimulant poopout (at least for his adderall). I don't know if this would work for Provigil.
Note, I have noticed that if I take Serzone, which is a 5ht-2a antagonist, that I seem to alleviate poop-out to stims. It is also a noradrenanergic alpha-1 antagonist and this helps to produce "pacemaker" firing out of a central pool of dopamine neurons in a area of the brain called the VTA (ventral tegmental area).
I think there is a connection between the serotonin 5ht-2a receptor hyperstimulation, nmda receptor hyperstimulation, and gaba hypostimulation leading to poop out. A genomic cascade which causes dopamine receptor
(de)sensitization. This is still a SWAG on my
behalf. I'll let you know if I figure out more.
My brain may turn to mush in the mean time.
> I know they are not sure exactly how Provigil works but it appears it may work by increasing glutamate & decreasing GABA
> I think Lamictal decreases glutamate.
> So wouldn't they counteract each other?
> I started this regimen 2 months ago:
> Lamictal 100 mg/day
> Provigil 200 mg/day
> Klonopin 4 mg/day.
> The Provigil worked great for a month but then gradually lost duration of action until now where it does absolutely nothing. I wonder if it is because Lamictal takes about a month to work & once it started working it negated the action of the Provigil?