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Re: hanging in there Lorraine

Posted by shelliR on September 22, 2001, at 21:49:47

In reply to Re: Shelli are you ok? shelliR, posted by Lorraine on September 22, 2001, at 13:06:10

Hi Lorraine
> > > > > > It is so horrible to say this but I feel like I'm ready to give up. But I could not do that to my parents, and my sister has been so clear in how much I mean to her.
> Did I tell you that I am keeping a "why I live" file for tough times? It includes wonderful notes that people have sent me over the years about how much I mean to them. I keep it in my notebook with my mood chart and so forth. It helps to know that it is there and when times are tough to read it and remember all of the people who care.

That's a nice idea, especially since you've been organized enough to save stuff like that.

I hope it has gotten better, Shelli. It sounds like the Oxy is helping.

Yes, the oxy is helping, but the constant need to raise the dose is alarming. And here I am picking nardil as my AD when I really have no reason to believe that it will work for me; I've retried it before since it lost it's effectiveness with no results. The wellbutrin helps with activation; I sort of see it as a booster similar to adding say, ritalin or any other stimulent. But I get no antidepressant effects from it. So I go up (hopefully this week) on the nardil, then what's next? I guess at some point my thinking was that if I was stabilized on an AD (nardil, now) then I might be more stable on the oxy--less tolerance. I feel like I've tried everything I can think of. There is something going on with the oxy and I know it's rebound depression in the morning, because never in my entire life have a woken up every single day this depressed. I think I might add a pill tonight at about 11pm and see if that stops the rebound effect. I'm curious to see if that has any effect on lowering the magnitude of the morning depression. It may be too activating, however, to sleep at night. Tonight I am feeling the depression more than I have for the past few days. It is scary to me.

> > yes, I am still seeing my therapist.
> Is she being helpful?

I don't even know. I guess any ally is good right now.

> > > > Have you tried Topamax or thought of augmenting with it? It is reputed to help with weight loss. Woman at my NDMDA meeting swore by it.
> > Yes, did a trial for five weeks (I have some anger at my last pdoc for insisting on such long trials,) and all I did was sleep; no anti-depressant effects.
> Topamax is a mood stabilizer (or anti-convulsant). I didn't think these were supposed to have anti-depressant effects, although Neurontin can for me.

Mood stablizers are very often used to boost ADs; so yes, in that sense, the whole idea is for them to have anti-depressant effects. That was the case for me with lamictal, and I assume the reason you take neurotin, since neither of us are bi-polar.

> > > > I have a hard time with the term mental illness. I feel much more comfortable with the term depressed. The term mental illness puts everyone in the same category. If you say you are mentally ill, pictures come up of schizophrenia, and other psychoses.
> I sat in a Recovery, Inc. meeting one day with only 5 of us there (including the leader), two of the people were very heavily medicated (maybe with schizo-affective disorder). Anyway the meeting was fairly humorous because the leader was trying valiantly to keep the ball moving from one person to the other and keep participation up, although at least two people were not capable of truly contributing to the meeting. So she would say "Now Sally wouldn't you say that you spot [blah,blah, blah] with Lorraine?....Of course, you would".

< vbg >. I have been in that situation, and yes it can be pretty funny; or irritating, depending on my mood.

Still, for me, I've been trying to come to grips with the fact that this is first and foremost an illness and that it is a chronic illness without a known cure. I feel like I have to accept that level of reality to move forward in my life.

I was thinking when I got your post this morning that I don't really understand how your depression feels. Like for me it is a huge weight in my chest, a very physical pain. And a tightness when I try to talk, or really even breathe. You said you have atypical depression so I know what the list is. You once mentioned sadness welling up behind your eyes. Is sadness a large part of it? Well maybe you could just describe it for me.

> > > >[re: support groups]Frankly, I find them unstimulating or insultingly childish.
> Did you try NDMDA? I don't find it childish. Unstimulating? Well, sometimes, but then the manics help keep the energy level up even though they take most of the focus. Shelli, you know the best way for you to get support. I'm not trying to push you one way or the other.

Well, I do feel pushed, sort of like you can't help it, despite your best intentions. < g > I tell you I don't feel the need for community in that sense, and you come back with , "did you try........" It's not a big deal, it doesn't make me feel guilty or bad or anything, really. It feels sort of like it would make you feel better if I went to a group because then you would know I was getting support. (And that's very nice for you to want me to have support.)

> > > > > > So that's good that you aren't having any side effects with nardil.
> > > Well, I increased my dose to 15mg 2x day. Let's see what that does. I was dipping in the afternoon.
> > do you mean depression, or tiredness, by the term dipping?
> I meant depression. At 15 mg 2x day, I still feel the depression but I am not that far into the trial (2 weeks). I do feel better, although the hyperventilating is still an issue as are the backaches but these may resolve or I may find a way to deal with them. A benefit is that I am able to back down on my bedtime meds b/c falling asleep is not the struggle that it was on Parnate.

See this is where I get mixed up about your depression. Aside from dipping in the afternoon, are you without depression in the morning and evening? When you describe your depression you use very mild terms (like dipping) and then on the other hand you say you are trying to come to terms with having an illness without a known cure, which implies severe impairment. So I get confused. Do you think my confusion is semantics? Like in the morning to you want to get out of bed? And then later in the afternoon (during your dip) do you feel like getting into bed and pulling your covers over your head. That's what I'm trying to understand.
> > > >[re hormones] I saw the new doctor regarding hormones and I finally feel like I have found someone who knows what they are doing. I got so tired of seeing ob/gyns that had waiting rooms full of pregnant women and knew nothing about hormones. This woman tested all of my hormone levels: DHEA, estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, thyroid and as well as my adrenal glands. Taking this info and taking into account the history of breast in my family, they sent a prescription to a compounding pharmacy for a combination hormone mix that she will adjust according to my reaction. She also will do a new test that measures hormone levels to make sure that they are in a range that minimizes breast cancer risk. Anyway, I am pleased.

I just get confused because my gyn (who I think is very smart), but yes, is also an ob, thinks that hormone tests are not very significant because they constantly fluctuate from day to day. Adjustment done on reaction is what she is big on, I think. I see her a week from Tuesday and I'll try to ask her again about getting me tested, but I think I already know what she thinks. Right now I'm taking synthetic estrogen and will probably go on natural progesterone, and then at some point I'll do more work on the right combination of synthetic and natural estrogen. Now I could probably get by with black cohosh, because it has become evident that despite the study on estrogen and depression, estrogen at the level of the study has not impacted my depression at all, and I'm not having any physical symptoms other than hot flushes. Actually I'm sweating a lot (like my face, mostly) and I don't know if that is hormonal or from wellbutrin. Also, in the southwest I was totally dry, always.

Anyway, I have been good about doing the treadmill 45minutes almost everyday, so hopefully between that and the lost of appetite on the wellbutrin, I'll at least become a thinner depressive.





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