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Re: Update Lorainne, Elizabeth, et. al. Lorraine

Posted by shelliR on August 7, 2001, at 12:33:18

In reply to Re: Update Lorainne, Elizabeth, et. al. shelliR, posted by Lorraine on August 7, 2001, at 11:04:05

Hi Lorraine, Elizabeth
> I just wanted to say that when I address something in the heading to Shelli or elizabeth it is never meant to be exclusive--any and all readers, writers, thinker are welcome to join in.
I support that fully.

> > In the meantime, my pdoc gave me the okay to up my oxycontin (10mg bid to 10mg bid + 10mg prn).
> You may not need it, but I guess it's good for keeping your therapist at bay.

No, I do think I need it, at least until parnate hopefully kicks in.

> > My therapist said on the phone over the weekend that I was exhibiting addictive behavior;
> Shelli, do you have an addictive past?
No. At one point I got pretty high up on valium (30mg a day) but that was only for one week. And then I got completely off of it. So, really no other addictions, except I am a true sugar/starch addict. If I bought a cake I would eat the whole thing. I have learned out to deal with that by not buying "whole " things. That is easy now, because I live alone, but at other times it has been a struggle. It is an absolute addiction though. Once I start, I can't stop, unless I am at someone's house or at a restaurant (and embarrassment saves me) and I even throw things out so I won't eat them. This is not a serious problem in my life, but I do have the feeling of what an addiction is, rather than wanting to take a drug that is potentially addicting because I don't want to feel depressed. The difference between sugar and say alcohol is that if I don't have sugar, I don't crave it.

> I wonder if you could do this generally with her. I mean what is she doing second guessing your meds anyway. We all "self-medicate" to the extent that we make do with what we have reducing doses, increasing doses--this is not considered a big deal normally

she is a very opinionated person. I don't hold things back from her; we just "fight" at times. I made a commitment to her about only taking drugs that my pdoc prescribes (because I was taking vicodin on my own). So then I broke that commitment so I had to deal with how to proceed from there. Because my pdoc stepped in and said it was okay, I am back sticking to the commitment. This is really the only issue she has ever threatened me with, so I'm not all the time thinking is she going to terminate with me or anything. She is totally unflexable on this one because she thinks I'm in danger of becoming an addict. I don't agree, and I don't really care all that much when I am feeling very depressed. If my pdoc had said no, I would have supplemented with drugs off the internet and terminated with her. I couldn't tolerate that level of depression. And I knew that I was starting parnate, so it was a lifetime decision.
> > > > but I really wanted to work out attachment issues with her--not just switch therapists again and move the attachment to someone else like I always do. Then after attachment, work on intimate relationship issues.
> Shelli--do you have attachment issues with your therapist? Is she a surrogate parent in some way?
Attachment is a very complicated issue. There was a thread relating to that a month or so back and if you read the posts between marie, judy and I, you will get a sense, I think, about what it means to me.

> > > >I've already exposed all my shame with her, so I don't want to start over. (but if I've really worked out my shame issues with her why does it seem so scary to bring them up with someone else?)
> Shame is a big, big, big, big ,big deal. I think. It takes a lot of faith in someone to work through shame issues with them. I'm not sure I could do that with someone who threatens to withdraw their approval of me. Also I'm wondering if working out attachment issues with someone who threatens to abandon you is best. Shelli, if you can't leave her now (and I understand how hard it is to do that and how hard it is to start with someone new) then maybe you should write her a letter about this stuff. Because it sounds like you guys have some things to work out here and it could be good for you to do this more immediate work on your relationship with her. (Shelli, I know I'm being pushy--so just take what you find useful and toss the rest. Judgmentalism is a huge issue with me. I'm allergic to it. :-)

Yes, you are being pushy :-). And that's okay--you care. But I'm pretty clear on this because I've worked with her for four years now and know what we can work out and what is just a waste of time and energy to keep pushing. The only issue about working together has been the meds. She has this strange thing about MDs. (Maybe because she's married to one, and at one point she was in medical school). She thinks if you're with a doctor you do exactly what he/she tells you to do, or you leave and find another doctor. Anyway, it's her belief system, I don't buy it completely. I think you also do what you have to to survive in life and if it means self-medicating, I don't have a problem with that. But I always tell my pdocs what I have done, always tell them if I am supplementing and if they can't handle working with me, it's their choice. Her complaint is that I tell after, not before.
> > > >[re shame worked out] shelli--i had lot of shame issues that I worked out with my therapist and have disclosed to people who are very close to me (husband, friends). I don't think it would bother me to talk to a new therapist about them, but I haven't disclosed some to my mother (and I should just for healing) or my brother (might never be able to). Part of it is choosing people that it is safe to disclose things to. I don't think the "vulnerability" goes away--I think that it quits running you life though. Or, better way to look at it, loses its power slowly over time.

I really want to get the medication thing straight before I make any changes in my life. I have not disclosed some of my shame issues to anyone but her, and several other past therapists. But I have gotten the furthest on shame issues with her. I don't feel a need to share them with anyone else at this point. I am still working, I guess, on sharing them with her.
> > > >[re why do I care what she thinks]
> Huge issue for me Shelli--isn't this what "shame" is all about? I attended a Recovery Inc meeting last week where someone was talking about an encounter he had with his landlord and said "i realize i didn't have to let the bridge down". These guys have their own lingo--but the point was that there was the external world and the internal world and that we choose how much of the external world to allow in. Somehow this "bridge" concept clicked for me as an image. This make me think that Recovery inc might have something of value for you. You might check them out (they are everywhere).

I'm not generally interested in support groups, but that does sound interesting. I was in a support group for several years with other women who had been sexually or emotionally abused and it was good but then I got to a point where I wanted to spend my time outside of therapy living, doing stuff, not focusing on pain, or how to do good things for yourself. I do a lot of nice things for myself and am pretty forgiving of myself. I have to work really hard on not letting people hurt me--really minor things hook right into my depression , and so far I can only deal with that cognitively, since that is my strongest function. And that is a very big thing that I recognize that I have to continue to work on.
> I'm doing well, actually. Yesterday, I took my second dose at 12:45 (instead of 1:30) and I exercised. I was able to sleep pretty well so that's encouraging.

Very encouraging. Are you up to 20mg a day or 10?
> > > > Thanks for letting me write a book here;
> I'm glad you did. We share some issues.

> Yeah, I used to do that (it's actually great here, i can request books online and then pick them at my local library). The problem is that when I hibernate, I stop going out. So now that I am in an up-swing, I could start this again.
I'm so glad that you are in an upswing; I don't think MAOIs poop out quickly in the same way SSRIs do.





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