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Re: jumping in Shelli shelliR

Posted by Lorraine on August 7, 2001, at 12:06:47

In reply to Re: jumping in Shelli Lorraine, posted by shelliR on August 6, 2001, at 21:24:50


> > > I had that problem with nardil and sleep also. Afternoon sleepiness and horrible difficulty staying asleep at night. That never got any better for me so I had to stay on a relatively low dose of nardil. I am taking both atarax and klonopin hs, but that wasn't enough if I went above 45mg which is just a normal dose. So probably I will have to face that with parnate also.

> > > What is your pdoc suggesting, as far as the sleep problem?

I haven't yet talked with my pdoc re sleeping issues. I would rather find a way of dealing with them without adding a sleeping pill to my packet of pills. Maybe a combination of good sleep hygiene, meditation (brain wave tapes that track the sleeping state), exercise, pill taking adjustment etc. What is atarax?

> > > because she thinks I'm going to end up a drug addict. She's been saying this for the past three years.

Why does she believe this?

[re hospitals]
> > > Sometimes they've really helped me get through wash out periods and also times when the stress in my life was to great for me to handle and I had to I guess be "taken care of" in the sense that I didn't have to work, or explain why I wasn't working, or remember to eat, etc. Of course, a cruise might have also done the trick and I might have considered that if my insurance paid for cruises :-)

Yes, I think hospitals are a tool to have in our case of tricks.

> > > > >I remain convinced that a possible *addiction* (habituation) to codone/contin is better than the other options.
> >
> > Yikes. (see that's how my therapist feels :-

Yes, but I don't see your position as "bad" just lower on the list of alternatives than perhaps you have placed it. Jensen says the following: "since the opiates are a brain transmitte, they can fail like anyh other chemical systeim in the grain. Potentially abusable "reward center" chemicals are an integral part of the brain's circuitry". He also notes the opiates works partically by locking the release of substance P and that substance P antagonists are being developed which help depression. He says other stuff (I like his book, by the way, which you cannot get at the library:-)) The question isn't whether there are valid medical reasons for trying opiates, there are, the question is whether you will become addicted to them. To me this centers on whether you use them in an abusive fashion--ie to get high--and whether you are prone to addiction. See my pdoc wouldn't hesitate to prescribe opiates if that was what I needed. He does not believe that people become addicted when you medicate them with the "right" substance. He also doesn't believe addiction is an issue for me. It sounds like your pdoc agrees with this philosophy but your therapist wants to second guess this. Does she have good reason to think this will be a problem for you?

> > > well the parnate is being added to the oxycontin; so parnate doesn't have to carry the whole weight, nor will oxycontin.

Parnate's pretty robust. You may not need more--although I am still on Neurontin, which surprising does offer some mood support and helps with the anxiety.

> > > I have ambivelent feelings. She is the smartest therapist I've ever had which is really important to me. She is able to teach me things about relating which make my life easier. She keeps me very focused, which is also important to me. She has a lot of experience with dissociative disorders, although my inside kids are not close to her, like my last therapist: that's a long story. She is very into EMDR, which hasn't helped me very much in my work with her, but sometimes I guess it's been good. She is wonderful on the phone with me when I am in crisis; never gets upset that I called and has a pager so she calls right back if she is in town. So those are her positives.

This is a tremendous list of positives.

> > >With many of my past therapists it was frustrating for me to be quicker than they were, and just smarter in a certain type of way. I don't have that problem with her.

I really understand this point, although my best therapist was not smarter than me (she just really knew what she was doing and it's not brain surgery as they say but a real art). And my smartest therapist was not the best on for me. I think finding a good therapist is very difficult. It took me 20 years to find the one that unlocked the door to my personal bunker from he** and helped me clean house. These people are few and far between.

> Her negatives are that she is always believes she is right, and once she takes a stand, she won't back down.

Shelli, you might think about writing her a letter and reading it to her in therapy. She can take the letter and think about it later. I find letters are helpful when people close their minds, especially if you keep it in the tone of "I feel". She sounds like a keeper, but ironing out your relationship issues with her would be a great thing, not just for you and her, not just for her (she could probably use some loving feedback in this area), but also for you and your future relationships.

> > The AD effects are strong.
> That's amazing --you've been taking it less than a week now? I'm not anticipating that for me, although I have heard that parnate takes effect faster than nardil. But a week vs five weeks?

Well, I felt the Parnate on day 1. I felt Moclobemide on day 1. These are activating drugs. You feel them right away or at least I do. But my pdoc said I'd feel it right away also.

> There are side effects--mainly sleep related.
> We'll work on those.

Yes, we will :-) Welcome to the club.





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