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Re: hand holding Lorraine

Posted by Elizabeth on July 22, 2001, at 14:54:36

In reply to Re: hand holding Elizabeth, posted by Lorraine on July 21, 2001, at 23:27:48

> Yeah, that's pretty much what it was for me on Effexor. But once I got on low carb, I found my craving for sweets pretty much went away.

I think a low-carb diet might help with Nardil. But that would be very difficult for me, for a variety of reasons (plus Nardil never worked for me in the long term).

> Anyway, he advocated Nardil and said that sometimes he put his overweight patients on it to help them get over there carb cravings. Isn't that odd?

Yes. I have no idea why that might work. I went from being a little bit underweight to very overweight for my size. I'd never had problems with my weight being too high before I took Nardil.

> > > > Have you had liver function tests recently?
> I think so as part of a general physical--nothing out of range.

I don't know if that would be part of a general physical (it's been so long since I've had one < g >).

> Although I am going to see a preventative medicine doctor in August and am going to ask her about doing a more in depth test than the normal stuff.

What's a preventative medicine doctor? I mean, I've heard of preventative medicine, but I didn't know it was a recognised subspecialty.

> > > > Consider the possibility that you're just extra-sensitive to feelings in your body. A lot of people who have panic attacks are that way.
> It's alway possible, but it doesn't ring true at first blush.

It may not be the case. Just keep in mind that it *could* be. Sometimes our intuition is mistaken.

> > > I really can't imagine.
> >
> > What, taking 2 mg of Xanax?
> Ok, let me try to imagine it. What is the lowest dose of Xanax?

The lowest strength pill is 0.25 mg.

> Whatever it is, I took that once and once only, it made me almost drunk, I mean slurring my words and so forth.

I only take 2 mg for panic attacks (infrequently, although I need more when I'm switching ADs). It's not sedating at all; it just cuts through the anxiety.

> What I was really reacting to was the 40 mg of Valium. I think they'd have to call 911 if I got anywhere near that dose.

I have a high intrinsic tolerance. Benzos at usual doses don't do much to me, and it's not due to acquired tolerance -- for a long time I thought that benzos were useless because the usual doses just didn't have any noticeable effect.

> I remember having doctors tell me that my endometriosis was "all in my head".

I hate that! I mean, in a situation like that, I'd call it malpractise, not just unprofessionalism (and perhaps more than a little bit of sexism).

Placebo side effects are quite possible, though. Consider this: in clinical trials, the rate of occurrence of various "side effects" is usually lower in the placebo group, but most often it's more than zero.

> I suppose the worst part about panic attacks (which I thankfully don't have) is that you have to learn to distrust what your body is telling you.

Not so much for me. Just figuring out that I was having panic attacks made it a lot easier to deal with them. The panic became a problem that I could manage, not a scary and mysterious thing.

> But then have you ever had an emotion that just occurred without an approriate stimulus for it? (what woman hasn't < vbg >)

I'm nowhere near menopause, and I don't get PMS, just cramps. I have spontaneous depressions -- for the most part, my depression is not related to stressful events or circumstances (or the change of seasons or my menstrual cycle). I think that people who haven't been depressed have trouble relating to that, because the only thing they have to compare it to is sadness as a normal response to events.

> Yeah, I think the mind/brain stuff is a bit whacko. But what I mean is that ruminating thoughts of fear and such might require a different treatment.

"Somatic symptoms" is a non-dualistic term for the "physical" symptoms such as palpitations, sweating, hyperventilating, etc.

> Do you would think that the jitters could have been a rebound anxiety response?

Yes, that's exactly what I was getting at.

> I take my dose in the morning and started having trouble around 2pm.

Yup! You just need to take it more regularly.

About Nardil vs. Parnate:
> Certainly Nardil has the reputation of being more effective as an anxiolytic. The place that said this ( was actually addressing panic attacks. I don't know if that makes a difference though.

It does. And my experience has been that Parnate is effective in preventing panic attacks, although I wouldn't say it's *more* effective than Nardil.





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