Posted by Jean Paul on June 20, 2001, at 1:37:40
In reply to Re: Memantine + Pemoline - Jean Paul, posted by AndrewB on June 18, 2001, at 10:44:11
Hi, AndrewB:
I am not suprised about argentinian prices of memantine being as high as in Germany: it is easy to explain. Demand curve of this kind of quite "excentric" drugs is very inelastic: any change in price would produce a less-than-proportional change in quantity sold, so the market solution is to establish high prices. However, it is true that this country has some of the highest drug prices. That is in part because argentinian currency is overpriced. Also, because national pharmaceutical industry is very important and control inner market, probably in the bad sense (cartels).
Just 4 days on this combo: selegiline (2,5 mg), pemoline (37,5 mg), memantine (20 mg). I also take a vitamin B complex supplement. Results were extremely curious: quality of pemoline effect changed radically, being more emotionally penetrating (light but persistant EUPHORIA!), and intellectually clean; length of effects was also improved; side effects of pemoline disappeared suddenly, in compensation new side effects: increased heart beat and muscular discomfort, specially (but no anxiety nor psychic over-stimulation); nothig such as mental sensation of being intoxicated or under the effect of a drug. However, if I drink a single coffe, then physical disconfort is intolerable; it is also difficult to sleep at night. I am reaching desired psychic results but have to pay the price of physical nervousness (inner tension), which I assume as stimulation of any dopamine receptor which activation is undesired (side effect due to the quite broad, unsellective action of the combo). Can make any difference amisulpride on that kind of synthoms? Do you take 50 mg, only? Perhaps these are effects of l-amphetamine metabolites of selegiline and I could expect to develope tolerance to them soon. Have you experienced something like that?
> Jean Paul,
>
> Thanks for the price info.
>
> The med. is more expensive in Argentina than Germany - $55 for 50 tablets approx. in Germany. I find it interesting that Argentina in general seems to have some of the highest drug prices in the world. This surprises me since Argentina, though not a poor country, neither is it a rich country. Usually drug companies price drugs roughly in relation to the average wage (excepting countries like Canada where the government negotiates drugs prices as a single bargaining agent, thereby providing leverage in setting prices).
>
> On the cocaine study- I didn't mention it to you but yes, memantine would likely change the quality of your experience with pemoline. For example it is likely to lengthen pemoline's duration of effect, smooth it out, and prevent tolerance over time to its initial effects.
>
> To repeat myself, though I’ve never read that moderate long term use of stimulants causes neurotoxic damage, their mode of action would make it seem possible or likely that damage does occur in small increments over time. One reason why this may not be reported is that the dopamine system ages (after 40) very rapidly in the “normal” healthy person, so it would be easy to ascribe any deterioration to normal aging. If this speculation of neurotoxicity is indeed valid, then the co-commitment use of low dose selegiline, NAC and memantine would seem to be wise. Beyond this, there is good evidence that depression (or certain subtypes) involves hyperglutaminergic (or hypo) activity in parts of the brain and presumably causing resulting damage that could contribute to the typical scenario of depression progressively worsening as we age, if untreated.
>
> A body of knowledge is evolving on the involvement of imbalance between our excitatory and inhibitory receptor systems in various psychiatric disorders; depression, hypophoria, compulsive drug use or pleasure seeking. Along with this knowledge is emerging strategies for restoring balance to these systems. It is likely we will find that some drugs’ ultimate effective actions are different than what we originally presumed. For example, it was thought SSRIs were effective due to their modulation of serotonin. However, it seems (one) of the most central ultimate actions of these meds is their ability (through a chain of events) to upregulate postsynaptic receptor activity on the dopamine D-2, D-3 neurons in the shell of the nucleus accumbens. More topical, is the action of methadone. Apparently it is has stronger activity as a NMDA receptor antagonist (ala memantine) than as opoid receptor ligand. Someone on the board recently said that they have found relief of depression only with methadone and no tolerance or addiction occurred. Perhaps we shouldn’t dismiss their experiences, however atypical, out of hand.
>
> AndrewB
poster:Jean Paul
thread:66051
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010618/msgs/67177.html