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Re: Info on Neurotransmitters

Posted by Sal on June 3, 2000, at 22:00:03

In reply to Re: Info on Neurotransmitters » boBB, posted by SLS on June 3, 2000, at 12:41:59

The only question I have is what was your motivation to give such a dissertation? What salient point were you trying to make?

That's two questions. But maybe we will never know why the person who called themself boBB did what they did. I think maybe boBB is gone.

>
> > Even if we agree that someone has a neurochemical imbalance and that psychmeds could improve the balance, MOST of your neurochemical balance will continue to function properly.
>
> You should see my P.E.T. scans. If you were to, I doubt you would have made the previous statement. 80% of it is blue. The percentage is higher if you exclude the occipital lobes.

Your motor functions seem intact. Your rational abilities seem sound, at least based on your ability to form insights based on your experience and learning. Overall, you seem to exhibit signs of a functional human being, if you don't mind me saying so.

> > pre-synaptic means things that happen inside the neuron (brain cell) before (pre) the synapse. All of the blocking and mimicking drugs work at the synapse, but the call them post-synaptic.
>
> No. But that's O.K. For instance, the NE promoting effect of Remeron is produced by its ability to antagonize presynaptic NE alpha-2 receptors. Clonidine, a hypotensive agent, exerts its effect by stimulating presynaptic NE alpha-2 receptors.

Thats right. Presynaptic refers to receptors on the sending side of the synapse as well.

>
> > Dopamine is found exclusively in networks from the frontal area - mostly the frontal lobes, to the amygdala/hypocampus, which is in the limbic system, inside the temporal lobes, (behind your temples).
>
> Ouch. Be careful when using words like "exclusively" when dealing with the brain. (Remember Parkinson's)

Yep. The ole guy mighta shoulda said "primarily." But he is on the right track to presume that dopamine is found in a particular area of the brain, primarily toward the front, and involving pathways that connect frontal areas with limbic areas.

A more precise description of neurochemical *geography* would read like: "The seretoninergic system develops from the midline of the floor of the fourth ventricle. Therefore, the highest concentrations of 5-HT are found in the dorsal raphe nucleus of the brain. It is here that it is thought to control sleep to a certain extent. It acts as an inhibitor. In other words, when the 5-HT receptors are stimulated, sleep is inhibited. (copied)
>
> > Dopamine networks (dopaminergic) are associated with "pleasure centers." these are areas of the brain associated with pleasure. (DUh!). When they implant mice with probes that let them self stimulate these areas, they will often stimulate rather than eat or sleep, until they starve to death. Evolutionary psychologists suggest we evolved these networks to learn what was good for us in terms of survival.
>
> I believe my dopamine levels are extremely low, yet I self-stimulate all of the time. How do you account for this?

Levels of dopamine are relative to the density of receptors sites requiring dopamenergic service, and metabolism of dopamine. Your low dopamine levels might inspire you to continue to self-stimulate. Upregulation of receptor sites might be involved. Your synapses might have sprouted more receptor sites each requireing more dopamine, and your constant production of dopamine might have developed an overgrowth of dopaminergic metabolites. Shallow water runs swift, and can deliver as many gallons per minute through a smaller reach, compared to a slow deep river.

> > Serotonin is a reinforcer, like dopamine, but it is found more in the middle and back of the upper brain (cerebral cortex) Serotonin is associated with more mundane tasks, like movements and repetitive tasks. That is why exercise helps boost serotonin levels - repetition produces serotonin and serotonin facilitates repetition. repeatedly.
>
> Serotoninergic neurons are usually inhibitory. This is why SSRIs very often produce apathy.

Or it could be that SSRIs elevate serotonin levels without providing a behavioral referant to which the network of neural pathways is oriented. That is why we are not supposed to take drugs (the illegal kind that causes euphoria). If we relieve our brains with chemicals that provide a sense of fun (activation of dopamenergic pathways) we will not learn to activate those same pathways with hugs and stuff. At least that is the folklorish psychobabble they offer in treatment centers.

Yes indeed, many sources say there have been no excitatory neurotransmitters yet isolated. Serotonin inhibits sleep, as does perhaps NorE. But think about it, if sleep is inhibited, what are you? AWAKE! Maybe this writer was working out of some older books, where they talked about the effect of the neurotransmitter on the function of the pathway and of behavior rather than precise chemical effect at the receptor site. Maybe books like Vertical Control of Cortical Functions, would be my guess.

> Why?
>
> > I think we should be learning this much about the time we get into junior high school. IF we can learn the capitals of all 50 states, why not learn the basics of how our brain works at about the same time we are going to start to be exposed to choices about using tobacco, coffee, pot or cocaine?
>
> I don't think these two equate well. Which would have been easier for you to learn at age 13? Also, I'm not sure that under this sort of program, it would be wise to leave out understanding the structure and function of the heart, autonomic nervous system, lungs and trachea, liver, oncogenes, the vascular system, and the process that produces arterial plaques, just to demonstrate why they should not snort, smoke, drink alcohol, or eat fatty foods. When you were 13, how well did you learn the processes responsible for the evolution of a class O star from gas cloud to the initiation of fusion reactions to the expulsion of iron from its core when it supernovas, and why we are all here because of it? Pedantic, I know, but I lectured about this stuff to a group of boy scouts when I was 13. Maybe it is a good idea. It's something to think about, anyway.
>
> You need to leave these kids some room for them to learn about journalism, anyway.

My experience is that some of the best journalists are those who picked it up somewhere outside of their schooling. Many of them are the ones more willing to question institutional paradigms.

But a quick tour of the web sites on neurochemicals, and the literature on neurochemistry in medical search engines relates mostly to neuropathology. With the exception of a few (older) books like "Vertical Control of..." (anybody have a copy they want to sell?) few sources strive for a comprehensive model of how a healthy brain works, or how the healthy part of a diseased brain works. I would not encourage imprinting the current body of pathology oreinted neurochemistry or neurophysiology on young teens. I feel it would be better to let them mature enough to be able to question authority, and perhaps develop the skills to advance the science rather than repeating what todays school of science already think it knows.


I agree. I'm not sure the universities have much to offer 13 year olds that would be relevant to their lives.


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