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Re: what is Self Esteem? / Janice

Posted by Mark H. on April 21, 2000, at 16:48:26

In reply to Re: what is Self Esteem? / Janice, posted by bob on April 21, 2000, at 13:04:18

Thanks for the great feedback. I've been attempting to articulate my thoughts about the use and misuse of the concept of self-esteem for a long time. Kelly's post really helped me, because she obviously has a very healthy and productive understanding of the terms.

CarolAnn, I think you're on the right track in thinking about your self-worth, especially given that devastating early phrase from your mother. I'm sure she would have given anything in the world to take it back if she knew what its effect on you was going to be. I'm not a parent, but I choke up even thinking that I've undoubtedly said things just as cruel to others, especially when I'm feeling like I'm the only person in the world who hurts.

Also, CarolAnn, as I read your response, and KarenB's and bob's, I realized also what I'm trying to say is that our feelings are basically not trustworthy -- especially so for those of us with mood disorders. So if we can use logic and reason (that's the "accurate" part of "accurate self-knowledge") to combat our feelings of worthlessness and despair, so much the better. If we've trained ourselves *not* to think, "I feel bad today, so I must be a bad person -- who'd want me? -- why would anyone value my opinion? -- who do I think I am?" etc., but instead to think, "I may feel bad (or giddily good, for that matter), but I'm a regular person with some good traits I want to encourage and increase, and some poor traits I'd like to change and improve" then I think we learn to cope with our ups and downs in a more realistic way and make daily decisions that are more in accord with our best values, those we choose when we're well and calm and have the ability to consider and care about other people's needs and suffering as well as our own.

KarenB made a great point of clarification for me -- she's right that the concept I was groping for is "shame." I can think of no positive value for shame when used as KarenB defines it, as opposed to what might be called "appropriate guilt" or regret for nonvirtuous speech and behavior. I think KarenB is right on in describing shame (not guilt) as the mirror-image of pride.

CarolAnn, there are days that I literally have to say to myself, "Have I killed anyone? Have I injured anyone? Have I stolen anything? Have I run anyone down with my car? Have I been cruel to my family, friends, co-workers or strangers?" etc. as a reality-check to see if my *feelings* of horribleness have any basis in reality, which they don't. Not that I haven't done bad things, especially when I was young, but that my *feelings* of worthlessness are not based in reality at all. That helps me to let go of the self-hatred sooner and to have more compassion for myself, without indulging in pity or puffery.

What would be useful in schools, I think, is to teach values clarification. There are values that we all have to accept whether we agree with them or not -- our country's constitution, state and local laws, the values we share with those we want to live with -- even Dr. Bob's minimalist but useful dictate to "be civil" or be barred from posting here. Most of us drive on the right side of the road! (A note to my alter-ego: don't split hairs about obeying all laws -- I'm painting with a broad brush here.)

Beyond that, values can diverge but need to be thought of consciously, considered, weighed and applied, if children and then adults are to experience integrity (itself a chosen value). That doesn't mean we don't have differences; only that we're clear and consistent, and that we are able to express them in a way that doesn't take away other people's health, safety, or dignity.

I love this list and the opportunities its given me to share and learn with some truly thoughtful, kind, open and wonderful people.

Thank you all so much for being here and for offering encouragement and support.

Appreciatively,

Mark H.

P. S. to my buddy, bob: Your lovely haiku went right over my head. I'm afraid I failed the test!


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poster:Mark H. thread:30698
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20000420/msgs/30876.html