Posted by liz on April 13, 2000, at 19:40:42
In reply to Re: liz cam, posted by jacquie on April 13, 2000, at 17:48:07
Jacquie, I'm enjoying our correspondence too! Happy to hear you had at least one night of peaceful sleep! I know alcohol is not the answer for most of us and I certainly am not recommending it as a therapy; I'm sort of temporizing with it, I guess. I'm surprized to hear that you are wired during the day on Celexa, then sleepless at night. I was about to fall asleep standing up on Celexa by itself during the day! There's the irony...then I still couldn't sleep well at night. I'm anxious to discuss this more with you. I can't really say that I've been in pain throughout my adult life nor have I been in therapy. However, I think we have something in common or at least can support each other. I'll get back to the site tomorrow when I've got some time....later, Liz
Thanks so much Liz. I like your letters! I so wish the sleep prob would disappear. One doctor wanted to switch me to Paxil, but I just started Celexa. I am wired during the day. I always knew I was depressed, it is just that I neglected to look at the length of time the more serious episodes would last. The last bout was pretty bad. Mine is one part genetics and 2/3 me and my inability to cope like a "normal" person would. I am just not the best at it, but I am learning. I do not have a good doctor who knows meds and this i need very soon. I have a gyn and a therapist...what a combo! Basically, I needed to get on medication quickly and the two chatted with eachother and then she prescribed the Celexa. Anything further I need to find a good dr. who knows meds. This is my next mission. You and Cam both have very good advice and I appreciate it and need it right now. Thank you. The wine is a great idea, but I don't drink on a regular basis. I will say though that last Sunday night I had several glasses of wine a melatonin and a kava, kava and a great dinner and a big roaring fire and I slept like a baby. It was wonderful, but i can't do that every night. I was in dreamland and felt wonderful. The benadry dries me out too much. The melatonin and kava kava aren't the best helpers...I believe it was the red wine and the fire. I felt great! As you can see I have fond memories of that restful night. As far as depression, I have alot of pain in my life, from long ago to the present and determining why it affects me so is the issue in therapy. With the celexa i don't over react so much and that is a wonderful thing for me. I don't focus so much on the negative so much and my sense of humor is backin full swing. These are the things that are important to me and they have been out of my life only to be replaced by tears, negativity and coupled with social fears. Thus my fear of getting off the celexa. It becomes a crutch then I suppose it has to go, but it has been awhile since I felt better or different than I have inthe past. Thank you , Liz. Please keep in touch with me if you want to. It helps to share these things I think. i will keep you posted.
> Hi Jacquie!
> > I wrote what I thought was a nice note to you last night, but it must be circulating in cyberspace 'cause its not here! Anyway, I have been thinking about you so I'm glad you came back here for a visit. The gist of my note was about the same as Cam's, although he says it much better than I did. ;-) I have, just this week, started sleeping better and I can't explain why but maybe it will hold some promise for you. I still wake up sometimes, briefly, but seem to be able to fall back to sleep pretty readily. Before when I'd wake up I would be wide awake, then I'd lie there and fret and worry and obsess about stuff, then, perhaps like you, I would only have, at best, very shallow sleep the rest of the night. Now I do seem to be having more restful sleep most of the time. I guess I'd echo Cam about Celexa: if it otherwise seems to be helping, I'd stick with it a while but perhaps try a sleep aid. My sleep aid is 2 glasses of Chardonnay and 2 Excedrin PMs! (More wine than that provided almost instant sleep, then waking at @2am - and not feeling too great!) I tried laying of the wine completely for about a week, but that didn't seem to improve sleep, so I just decided to moderate a little. As I mentioned before, my poor sleep was one of the things that propelled me to get help, so here we probably differ. You asked, I think, if Celexa had altered my world view. Well, the verdict is not in yet. I have trouble remembering exactly how I felt before the medicine, even though I have faithfully kept a journal . Once I started medication, just this February, I started also to re-examine every little thing in light of "now I'm admitting to a problem" or "now I'm taking medicine" and it made me, I feel, overly conscious of everything I said, did or felt. It worried me some that I was way too self-absorbed, but then it occured to me that maybe that is part of the healing process. In otherwords, maybe the initial step to see a professional coupled with medicine has gotten me to a point where I can analyze things with a healthier point of view and take more positive steps. You mention anxiety as one of your concerns. I don't think that really describes me; in fact I think I could use a little anxiety to propel me to action! Wouldn't it be ideal if we could each have our own custom-made chemical cocktail? (This, BTW, is one of my avoidance techniques; rambling at length to avoid something I really need to be doing!) Yesterday I spent hours reading monographs on pharmacuetical
> > products - all the anti-depressants. (I wanted to be more like Cam, or at least understand better what he was talking about :>) What I think I gathered is that there are, for example, a bunch of SSRIs but the chemical properties vary from one to the next, so perhaps switching to another one might prove worthwhile. My sister, who is so much like me, started taking Paxil last fall. Prior to that, she was a complete slug. (The only reason I haven't been a complete slug is because, unlike her, I have 4 children, a husband, big house, 2 dogs and a cat that compel me to get moving once and awhile!) She has a good job and performed well at work but did little else. She was overweight and almost social phobic. Since she started Paxil she joined a gym, lost 40 pounds, cleaned up and decorated her house, lowered her dangerously high cholesterol and now joins her co-workers for social events. My mother, who is up there in years and is taking care of my nearly invalid father, also went on Paxil and has had a complete turnaround of mood and attitude. She had been weepy, depressed, worried and fretful as she advanced in years and is now calm, cheerful and coping beautifully with all the stress. Was that all from Paxil? I don't know, but if it was, I sure could use some of that!
> > I have only my third visit with my doctor at the end of this month. During the first 2 visits, I was ignorant and passive, like "whatever you say" because I didn't know anything! I certainly didn't suspect that I had OCD and ADD! Now, I feel a little better equipped to ask questions and explain how I've responded to the medicine and also to tell him what I think I need. My hope is that he, knowing these drugs better, will be able to fine-tune my treatment. But I also realize that the medicine is only part of the solution. My doctor has a technique of asking questions that allow one to come up with one's own solutions. It was almost comical on my last visit when the issue of my self-medicating came up. I said "are you asking me or are you telling me, 'cause its probably best if you just tell me flat out to quit drinking if thats where you're going with this." Ah, but he doesn't operate that way. It appears that he wants me to arrive at my own conclusions. Boy, am I goin' on here! Just bouncing this all of you, thinking while typing. I try to talk to my husband about this and he treats me like I'm completely wacky and as fragile as fine china! I keep telling him that I'm the same delightful person I was before, but now I have a label and I guess for him that changes things. Well, I suppose it changes things for me too, but I don't feel like I was terrific before and now I'm impaired - quite the opposite. For him, I was pretty great before and now I'm impaired. The stigma of mental illness raises its ugly head! Well, I've prolonged the inevitable long enough. Gotta get to work here. Sorry if my missive put you to sleep (oh, but that might help you!). Anyway, please keep in touch and let us know what you decide to do. Take care, Liz
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> > DEAR LIZ, SORRY IT TOOK ME SO LONG TO REPLY. THE SLEEP ISSUE IS REALLY BECOMING A MAJOR PROBLEM FOR ME AND I AM DISTURBED THAT IT MIGHT NOT SUBSIDE. THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR EXPERIENCES AND CONCERNS. I AM IN THERAPY WEEKLY AND HAVE BEEN FOR YEARS. HAVE NEVER TAKEN MEDICATION EXCEPT FOR YEARS AGO WHEN DOC THOUGHT I WAS A MANIC DEPRESSIVE AND TOSSED ME ON LITHIUM, WHICH WAS THE MOST HIDEOUS EXPERIENCE I HAVE EVER HAD WITH MEDICATION. IT IS NOT FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT MANIC DEPRESSIVE. ANYWAY, I REALLY LIKE CELEXA AND FEEL FOR SURE IT HAS HELPED, BUT AWAKE MOST OF THE NIGHT AGAIN LASTNIGHT. THERAPIST THINKS I SHOULD GET OFF IT BECAUSE NO ONE SHOU;LD HAVE THIS MUCH OF AN INSOMNIA PROBLEM. ...EXCEPT ME OF COURSE! hOW ARE YOU DOING???
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> > > Jackie, nice to hear from you! I have always taken Celexa first thing in the morning, on the advice of my doctor. It was prescribed for me for OCD w/ underlying depression. I had just been in a rut, unmotivated, obsessive about some things and totally disinterested in other things, things I used to enjoy. I felt like I was just going through the motions of living - it was like watching someone else in a really boring movie. I felt detached from everything around me. Celexa alone may have taken the edge off things... I don't know. It sure made me tired during the day; I felt at times like I could fall asleep standing up. Of course it didn't help that I wasn't sleeping great at night. On my next visit to the doctor, he prescribed adderall, a stimulant. Now this combination has really helped me - my particular needs - I think. This is also about the time I found babbleland. Prior to this I think I believed that medicine alone was going to work some magic without any involvement from me, but after reading all the recent posts here, it began to occur to me that to feel better, I was going to have to do more on my own behalf than swallow a couple of pills. Perhaps the two drugs, or even the Celexa alone, got me to the point where I could think - take some sort of purposeful action - that would help propel me to where I wanted to be. Does that make sense? After reading some of the stories on this board, it occured to me that those who seem to have coped best with their disabilities were those who got pretty aggressive about their recovery. So I see the meds as a catalyst for that battle, not a cure. As to side effects from Celexa, I really hate the dry mouth thing and I also have had a feeling of stuffiness in my ears, but that is not constant. Night sweats? I had those before...I thought it was possibly hormonal. I just throw the covers off for awhile, then pull them back, then throw them off again - I get some exercise even while I'm in bed! I did not have any mania on Celexa alone, but shortly after I started adderall, I had two days of hypomania that my doctor said could have been triggered by the combination of the 2 drugs; they have been known to throw people into a bipolar episode. However, on those days I also had the first two days of my period and am convinced that had something to do with it. I had been taking 10 mgs. of Adderall twice a day with little or no noticable effect (much better concentration is about it) and then had several days on 15mgs, again the effect was not dramatic, then I had this hypomanic phase lasting about 2 days, then CRASH! Now I'm back to "normal" So even though my doctor asked me to stop the Adderall, I started taking it again after a few days. I know, I'm bad....but I like the two together. I think I was too mellow on Celexa alone. The only other problem was the delay of orgasm (or no orgasm) and that was a real bummer. I was in denial about that 'cause I didn't want to believe it was going to happen to me. Anyway, I think my husband and I have resolved that problem!;-) Take care, Liz (and let me know how things are going)
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> > > > I have been taking celexa for three weeks now and wonder if
> > > > > > > anyone else might be having problems with sleep. I fall
> > > > > > > asleep at 9pm and wake up again at midinight, somethimes 3am
> > > > > > > or 4am and then just get up at this point. Is it the Celexa
> > > > > > > or is it me? If someone has some advice I would be most grateful
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> > > > > > Jacquie, hi. I too have been taking Celexa just a short while, maybe two months now. I was having sleep difficulties just as you describe even before the medicine. However, part of my problem was that I was "self-medicating" with several glasses of wine virtually every night, so I would have no trouble falling asleep, but would always wake up and be wide awake at some point in the night. If it was before 2 AM, I would take some Exedrin PM to get back to sleep, otherwise, if it was later than 2, I would usually just toss and turn or have very shallow sleep the rest of the night. Since starting Celexa, I've been trying to determine if the sleep problem is even worse than before but of course, with the wine, it was just too hard to tell. My doc suggested (!) I reserve the wine for weekends or give it up entirely, which I have done now, for the most part for about 2 weeks. In an effort to help myself improve and feel better, I also started taking long power walks in the early evening, the time I used to spend relaxing with a glass of wine or two. That really helped me get over that hump! Then I found that I was not so sleepy early (duh!) and my late evenings were more fun and productive, which gave me a nice boost. I was also staying up later, so when I went to bed, I was really tired. To make a long story even longer, I still wake up at night, with or without wine, but I think the quality of my sleep is better. I do take Exedrin PM almost every night anyway, as insurance. You might want to try pushing your bed time 'til later and popping a couple of PMs at that time. The upshoot is that I can't really tell you unequivicably that Celexa interferes with sleep, but my suspicion is that it does. Hope this helps; maybe others out there have a less muddled answer. Good luck! Liz
> > > > > Liz, thanks for your advice. I went to the website mentalhealth.com (it's a good site) and sure enough there have been many complaints about Celexa and sleep problems so they suggest you take it during the day before noon. I started doing that yesterday and hope it helps. Maybe you could try the same? Do you like the Celexa? Have you found it has altered your view on the world or of the world?? I think it has in me. I am not so upset about trivial matters and seem to handle things with more calm and sensibility. I am curious what you think as you have been taking it only one month more than I. Have you had any other side effects and have they subsided?? I have night sweats sometimes and increased excitability...aka mania I suppose. Let me know! Thanks, Liz.